Nothing good ever comes easy with Claire Wheeler and Tara Clark

We talk with Claire from KidBiz Academy and Tara Clark Art about the pitfalls of working with kids, selling candles, fortune telling, and how we all need to persevere to get to where we want to.

 This episode is packed with gems, by two guests who are doing incredible things. Claire is empowering children to take on an entrepreneurial spirit, teaching them all about the various aspects of business, from marketing to design, to sales and production. Breaking it down and making it interesting for kids aged 5+.

Tara is a 15-year-old aspiring artist, specialising in Character Design. She guides me through her process, where she wants to take things and that she's currently open to commissions, so if you want to work with her, her work is simply amazing. And now she's a published illustrator.

Download my freebie - supercharge your brand's feelings

Claire Wheeler
Website – KidBiz Academy
Socials – Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn

Tara Clark
Instagram – @Tara.Clark.Art 
Commissions Email Tara at tarairclark@gmail.com

Transcript

[00:00:00] Fortnight Update

Martin: Hello. I hope you've had an amazing fortnight. Our household have been busy prepping to go camping in a few weeks where my wife's 32 weeks pregnant. Um, so it's going to be an interesting time. 

[00:00:15] Sell Benefits Not Features

Martin: Uh, so the, for the last three weeks straight, I've been running branding workshops for business owners to develop their own strategies.

It's not quite as an intense and personalized as a one to one session, but the information is there for them to unpack. A lot of what we talk about revolves, uh, being consistent, uh, understanding that, you know, benefits like high quality aren't actually a benefit. Quality is expected from people, and people don't buy things based on it being high quality.

A couple of quick examples, Patagonia sells sustainability, not fashion. They, uh, Volvo sell safety, Nike sell confidence, and Lamborghini sell status. [00:01:00] Uh, people buy things to feel like they're, they belong to a, you know, a bigger group. If you want to grab the free download on my site, uh, and discover what you should be selling, I'll leave a link in the show notes.

[00:01:18] Podcast Intro

Martin: This is the Level Up Podcast. I'm your host, Martin Sully, a brand strategist, designer, and founder of Snapper Studio. And I'm on a mission to help you gain clarity and confidence in your brand. I'll arm you with bite sized tips. and introduce you to friends of the show who are taking their brand to the next level.

[00:01:51] Meet Claire And Tara

Martin: I have not one, but two guests on today. So I met Claire after I commented on her signing a publishing [00:02:00] deal, which for those who don't know, is actually a bit of a plan for bringing the podcast to life in a whole new way. From there, we discovered that we were both English living in Australia and had a fair bit in common.

A few days after that meeting, I was a finalist at Awesome Newcastle and Claire happened to be on the board that night. The board then picks its favorite pitch to win 1, 000 no strings attached grant. Claire's an unpublished author, award winner, mum, and igniter of inspiration. She empowers the next generation of entrepreneurs into, yeah, using a mix of, uh, Yeah, workshops and engaging school incursions.

And what I love about Claire is her ability to sell the emotive benefit first, but also know that there's some pretty amazing lifelong benefits too. And Claire's brought in an artist with her today, uh, Tara Clark, who she commissioned for the cover of a book. And I've had a little look at Tara's work and it's [00:03:00] absolutely epic.

So Tara's. Yeah, concentrating on character design, which we'll, yeah, definitely get into. Welcome, Claire. What made you decide to empower kids? 

Claire: Oh, thanks for that. What an intro, Marty. 

Martin: They don't, they don't always look like that, but I thought I'd go all out today. 

Claire: I love it. I love it. And before we get into it, congratulations, 32 weeks pregnant, right?

Martin: And, uh, yeah, no, I'm kind of happy about that, but, uh, going, judging by the first sort of 20 weeks or so. 

Claire: Yeah. She's at that stage where she's kind of turning over in bed and just, yeah. 

Martin: Yeah. Pretty much. 

Claire: That's it. Oh, how exciting. That's so cool. Um, okay. 

[00:03:51] Why Empower Kids

Claire: So kids, kids, all about kids. What made me decide to empower kids?

Well, I guess I [00:04:00] always wanted to work with kids, right? Always, always. From, I can remember, Oh, I can remember being in year three at school and wanting to be a primary school teacher. Wow, and it was it was a dream and I would look at my teachers and I would think this is what I want to do And when it came to remember when you did work experience at school Yeah, and I did work placement in primary schools and I loved it and then I I went to high school and I finished and I just thought do I only want to be a teacher because That's all I've really been exposed to because obviously I've been in the schooling system and maybe that's the only kind of job I've been exposed to so I thought I've got to go in and travel the world and experience other things So travel the world like most of us Brits do.

Yep. Um, and then Ended up just falling into the corporate world. Did a lot of events and hospitality before that. Um, so fell into the corporate world and just got stuck in sales and marketing, which [00:05:00] I loved. I say stuck and then I say loved in the same. Oh, look, I loved it. Um. And I worked for an agency, a design agency for many, many years.

And it got to a point when I had my own children, which a lot of, you know, you hear this story all the time. People say I got pregnant, I had a baby and everything changed and a few things changed, but. Uh, yeah, I'll probably tell you more about why I started kid biz and the big, the real change kind of along the way, but yeah, a few, few things changed after I have my own kids and I just thought, no, I don't want to do this anymore.

I don't want to go into an office. I don't want to work with adults anymore. To be honest, I want to work with kids. I feel like, um, Yeah, I just wanted to have more fun and to empower kids. So yeah, I started to look at that. I did, um, a couple of teaching courses and I guess I just wanted to give kids [00:06:00] a voice and empower them in a way that I.

I wasn't when I was younger. Um, I don't know. I don't know what you, I don't know about your situation growing up Martin, but I grew up in a very small town in England and parents of that generation where you go to school, you finish school, you get a job, you work hard. And you know, if you're lucky, you, you, you kind of get a house in that.

Yeah. And you know, then you retire, right? 

Martin: Yep. My, uh, my experience was pretty much identical to that. I moved to the only thing, maybe slight differences. I moved away to a big, uh, city for my university because there was no universities in my little town of like 1500 people and yeah, moving away to like, you know, a hundred times that like there was like 50, uh, 150, 000 people living there and you're in a, that's a big city in the UK.

Um. Um. And that was eye opening. Yeah. Yeah. 

Claire: Yeah, that's it. I went to Union Leeds, but [00:07:00] I still had that, I guess it was like limited beliefs. I don't, I don't want to say, I don't, I don't, I feel harsh that my parents brought me up in that way, but they were brought up in that way. So there was always this, uh, scarcity and limited beliefs, like, you know, um, money doesn't grow on trees.

So there was a financial scarcity and there was, um, I guess, It just wasn't ingrained in me that you could become whatever you wanted to. It was like, get a good job. You know, that, that was kind of it, but it wasn't like, you know, if you want to go and work in China doing whatever, if you want to work in South America doing shows every night, it was never talked about.

So I guess for my kids, I want to show them and for other kids that you can do whatever you want, whatever you dream you can achieve. So that's really what the message that, that I want to push. 

Martin: That's awesome. I love that. Yeah, that's really cool. Um, yeah. 

[00:07:59] Entrepreneur Mindset

Martin: So why is it so [00:08:00] important to kind of nurture these entrepreneurial skills in, in kids?

I think, yeah, get to the, let's get to the bottom of that. 

Claire: Yeah, so entrepreneurship is something which, I mean, I think benefits everyone, right? And I, from a very young kid myself, I was truly an entrepreneur. I remember being so young and, you know, my, you know, I did all the things. I washed cars, I mowed lawns, I did all that.

I did some really weird things like, um, I was a fortune teller for a while. Marta, I've never told anyone that. I was a fortune... Oh, wow.

And do you know what? I did it in this fate. I was really young. I was maybe 11 or 12. So my mom helped me and I can't believe I'm telling you this. Oh my gosh. Um, but I, I did, there was this, um, Village fate, which was in the village next to mine. And we had this, this fortune telling store [00:09:00] and, um, we had loads of customers that day.

And I remember so many of the customers said to me, I've been to so many clairvoyants, but I've never had someone as accurate as you. And I was just. telling them stuff that I thought they'd want to hear, right? And I guess it's the power of positivity. It was like, you're, you know, you're, something good will happen to you or whatever.

Um, so that was a funny one, but yeah, loads of, loads of, um, tutoring, babysitting, all the, all the jobs. I did all the entrepreneur, entrepreneurial jobs, but for me, um, you know, and, and I teach this stuff, but I genuinely don't. It's it's not my position to say that a kid should go on and start their own business.

I don't mind if they start their own business or not. What I'm trying to do is nurture an entrepreneurial mindset. [00:10:00] So things like, you know, even if you just do a lemonade stand when you're a kid, the things that you learn from it are, um, you know, marketing, you learn, uh, resilience, you learn to be creative, you learn budgets, you learn money skills, right?

You learn, uh, selling skills, lots of selling skills, you know, um, you learn product creation. Because you might not just do lemonade, you might just make the lemonade, you might do smoothies, you might do sell biscuits, you, you know, you learn all of these things, and it's these kind of ideas, which I think make you thrive later on, it's embracing the challenges, and whether you start a business, or whether you go into big business, or whether you work for someone else, All of those skills are going to benefit you.

Martin: Yeah, I can, I can absolutely see that. So yeah, to, um, to kind of not, not top your, uh, your entrepreneurship for the, uh, clairvoyancy. And yeah, um, I, I set up a, when we had like one of those [00:11:00] fates, I sold candles. So I made like candles and yeah, sold those. So yeah, I mean, how did you go? Um, geez, I made a lot of candles, like my mum must have got sick and tired of me just making candles in the kitchen.

Um, and probably, I think I made something like 56 pounds, so it's probably not a lot of money at that time. But having said that, you know. If I was a kid, uh, to make 56 pounds, I'd probably be quite happy with that. 

Claire: And you know what? That's like, I love that story. And you know what? You probably charged a very small amount, right?

Because kids do, they think it has to be really cheap. So it was probably 50p a can or something. Yeah, 

Martin: probably. 

Claire: I love that. Well done. 

Martin: That's good. Um, yeah. 

[00:11:51] Kid Biz Origin Story

Martin: So yeah, when you were looking at making, uh, the kid business academy, was there like a really strong vision that you had? [00:12:00] Um, and yeah, when did that as kind of vision come to life?

Claire: Well, actually it all really started around COVID, which, um, a lot of things started around COVID, right? So many people, uh, or maybe stopped around COVID, but, um, So I was working with the agency, design agency, and we had a lot, we worked with overseas factories, but we worked with local cardboard.

manufacturers and plastic factories, um, in Sydney and COVID, uh, COVID came about and retail just stopped. Right. So retail stores were closed. Nobody was going shopping, which meant nobody was ordering point of sale and posters and floor stands and all the things that locally were being produced. So I said, I want to do something where we can support these factories, but also just keep us busy, keep us in work, right?

So we developed, um, so I developed, [00:13:00] uh, an eco friendly, an eco friendly play space business. So you'll see them everywhere now, but at the time they were, they weren't sold anywhere, but they're like little cubby houses and circus tents and they're all made of cardboard and they sell them at Kmart now, but they didn't at the time.

Yeah. Um, so we started a business, um, doing that and it just took off. It was the perfect time to do it because kids were stuck at home. Parents wanted things for the kids to do. It wasn't plastic. You could color it in, you could reuse it, but then you could just recycle it at the end. So, so it was, yeah, it was really cool.

And I started that business and my own kids. So I've got three boys, um, and my own kids loved it. They loved to make the prototypes. They love to test the prototypes. They love taking pictures for social media, all that kind of stuff. So they loved being part of the action. And I thought, Oh, this is incredible.

I really want to nurture this. So I'm really want to nurture this entrepreneurial [00:14:00] spirit in them. So I went to the bookshop and I tried to look for some resources and some books on, um, how to make your own business, you know, how to make a lemonade stand, all that kind of stuff. And I just. could not find anything, anything I searched high and low and I couldn't find anything.

And I thought there's a bit of a gap in the market here because I remember being that kid. My kids are interested. Um, so I started to write. Uh, basically a handbook, which has now been, um, it's not out, but I've got a publishing deal, which is awesome for it. So it will be out next year. So it's basically a handbook for kid entrepreneurs and it's a how to guide, right?

Um, but as I'm writing this and I'm talking to the publisher about it and there's, there's vast interest in it. So I knew I was onto something, but as I was writing it, I thought, I can't just write a book about doing it [00:15:00] without. Practicing what I preach, right? I have to be teaching kids. I have to be getting the feedback along the way I have to, you know, know how to talk to them.

So I started doing a few free workshops and I just thought I'm just going to offer the free workshops. I'm going to teach what I've written and see how it goes. And I did, and they just took off and kid biz was born and yeah, from those workshops, um, I, I think I had four people at my first workshop because, you know, to get word out, it's really hard.

And so I had four kids and then they told more kids and then they told more kids and, and it just grew. So then I just got booked up and schools jumped on board and yeah, that's how it happens. So now I do. Online workshops and I do school incursions and one to one sessions and everything. 

Martin: Yeah, amazing.

That's so, uh, it's such an inspiring story about that sort of growth. Um, and kind of finding that little niche, um, yeah, [00:16:00] takes off it's fairly rare. Um, yeah, lots of businesses I come across, uh, uh, doing something that other people are doing and to position them and to make them go. Oh, that's something completely different.

That's yeah, rare and hard to do as well. 

Claire: It is hard to do and it's hard to get the word out there like any business. And since starting this, I have found a few other businesses which do similar things, but they have a different target market. So some are specifically only targeted to girls or some might be only to high school kids.

Um, so yeah, the, the, But I mean, I, I'm just encouraged by anyone that kind of sets this up and yeah, I 

Martin: think that's, um, yeah, I like, I, I, I do under, I fully understand that, you know, the, the need to kind of, and for some people to specifically target it. Um, girls or boys and trying [00:17:00] to sort of look at that side of things, but yeah, for me, I always, um, yeah, inclusivity and diversity are like big things that I, I genuinely support and want to, you know, give people as much access to the sort of training that I have.

Um, so yeah, I do, I do, I do get that. 

[00:17:17] Kid Entrepreneurs Examples

Martin: Um, have you got any sort of, yeah, favorite, favorite stories that inspired, uh, you know, some children that you could share? 

Claire: Um, I mean, a lot of the workshops we talk about, you know, we obviously talk about the famous, the big entrepreneurs, right? So the kids will say, Oh, you know, Jeff Bezos.

Bill Gates, the famous ones. Right. But then I love to tell them about the kid entrepreneurs, right? Because you don't have to, that's, that's my whole thing. You don't have to be an adult to be an entrepreneur. You can be a kid and it doesn't have to be, um, like I say, you know, it might be a bake sale or you sell jewelry online or whatever you do, but it could be something that's huge, a massive, and we've got kids in our [00:18:00] book, which we'll talk about, um, but you know, we've got kids here, which.

Uh, Milo and Liv and Lucas from Glossy Boys, they've all been on Shark Tank. Yeah. 

Martin: I saw a couple of them. I didn't see Lucas, but I definitely saw the girls from Cinnamon Cove. Um, yeah, like incredible. 

Claire: Oh, incredible. And Milo and Liv are Newcastle based and, you know, Lucas has done a TEDx. Talk as well. I thought he couldn't top the TEDx talk and then he was on Shark Tank.

And I was like, how many people in the world have done that? You know, and these people are selling, they're selling their products globally. Yeah. And it's just amazing. So when I talk about these in class and they'll say, I saw them on shark temple, I know them and it's so, the buzz in the room, it's so exciting.

Martin: Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, like if people have dreamed of doing that, the kids that were getting inspired by seeing them on TV, even just, yeah, like that's super exciting. [00:19:00] Uh, yeah. 

[00:19:02] Brand Personality Tool

Martin: Um, I'm just gonna, yeah, I'm just gonna dive into a little bit of a tool that I use occasionally. So, um, when I'm working with brands and it's to kind of unpack their brand personality.

Um, so the first thing we do is to kind of look at bringing them. Bringing the brand itself to a party and everybody always goes, why, why do I need to, why does my brand need to have character and, you know, be interesting and you know, why, what's the importance of that? And it's simply just to have things to talk about.

It's to, you know, how do you want to present your brand? publicly. So I always get them to answer a few questions like what are they wearing? How are they into the room? How do they behave around people? What do they drink? What are they, you know, what kind of party is it? Um, you know, those sorts of things.

Um, but my question for you related to this, is there any similar tools that you kind of [00:20:00] share that, you know, can help that help people? that are looking to go into. Yeah. Entrepreneurship. 

Claire: I love that party idea. I might steal that from you and 

Martin: use it in my 

Claire: workshop. You can imagine the, the kind of moody mystical brands wearing black in the corner, right?

Not talking to anyone at the party. 

Martin: That's the whole thing. Like it's about exploring that. Um, and no answer is wrong. It's yeah, just unpacking it and just seeing how, how things go. 

Claire: Yeah, we talk a lot about when we when we design logos in the workshops, we talk about color psychology and the colors behind the logo and the same thing.

There's no wrong or right answer. So I might say fun and I might think yellow, but then somebody else might think pink or red, you know, whatever. But yeah, there's, there's because I teach kids and they can't, you can't expect a child in an all day workshop to sit down and listen for a very long [00:21:00]period of time because kids need to be active and they need to get up.

So there's so many. Games and activities and tools and things that we use throughout the day. Um, so just like that with the party game, but, you know, we might be building a tower, which talks about planning and team building and collaboration. Or you might do the color psychology, like we said.

[00:21:20] Feedback Rating Method

Claire: Um, but one tool, one tool that I personally like to use.

And I think that every adult should use this and every child should use this. And you probably use it already, Martin. If not, 

Martin: I'm going to steal it. 

Claire: This is brilliant because as you know, feedback is gold, right? And as humans, sometimes getting feedback is a little bit like, ouch, you know, it's hard to hear sometimes, but it shouldn't feel like that because feedback is brilliant, right?

And I always say the tool that what you should do is for anything that you do in life, whether it's do a [00:22:00] presentation, do an incursion, design a logo, um, You know, uh, go on holiday, whatever you do, always ask the person to rate it. Do you do this 

Martin: Martin? Yeah. I mean, like feedback is like one of the most important things, uh, yeah, to help drive a, drive a brand and open up those, uh, sort of, yeah, open up a dialogue with the people on the other end.

So your target market and the people you're actually selling to. It's so important. 

Claire: That's right. That's right. So I always say you've got to rate it from one to 10, right? So if you design a logo and you say to your client, um, you know, do you like that logo? They might be like, Oh yeah, it's okay. You know, but then you say, I want you to rate it from one to 10, 10 being the best one being rubbish.

And then if they say seven, the key is always to say, okay, how do we get that seven? up to a 10, right? And that is the key. And then they'll start to give you the feedback that you need. Oh, well, actually, if you added a bit more yellow, or if you made that [00:23:00] bold or whatever, and I say that to the kids, that's one of the best ways of getting feedback.

So rate it from one to 10. And then how do we get that six or seven or eight or whatever up to a 10? So that's 

Martin: If it's a one, do you then just go, Oh, maybe we'll just scrap it completely? 

Claire: Maybe. That's it. That's it. So, you know, it's really important for me to, to, at the end of a workshop to say to the teacher or the principal or the librarian or wherever we are, you know, how would you rate that?

Um, and then, yeah, how could we get it up and, and, and for, for presenters, um, You know, if you're, if you're new to presenting, it might be, Oh, well, if you just spoke a little louder, or if you just, you know, if you just got the room a bit more involved or something like that, and it's just gold, any kind of feedback is gold.

Martin: Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. I, uh, as much as I do go into details, I actually think that would be quite a worthwhile little tip to, um, yeah, to [00:24:00] implement. So 1 to 10 and then, yeah, get the, get the precise feedback after that. 

Claire: That's it. The scale from 1 to 10, always a winner. 

Martin: Awesome. Um, yeah. 

[00:24:12] Ages And Workshop Formats

Martin: What, what ages do you work with?

Claire: Um, so I've done workshops for kids as young as five. And, um, I mean, we've got kids in our book. We've got a couple of kids who are five and six. So, you know, it's not just limited to older kids. So Tobias is five. He started a, um, uh, a little chili jam and, and. Preserve business. And this is Nate and he wrote a book at six with, well, obviously with the help of his mom.

Um, but yes. So, so when we do younger workshops, they're more, um, I'm very careful. I don't use business talk. I'm not, I'm not like, give me your marketing plan.

Most adults couldn't do that. Um, But [00:25:00] yeah, with the very young kids, it's more about playing shop, right? So we, we make a shop and we make products and we design the just shop color and stuff. It's just fun. It's just fun. Awesome. Yeah. I love that. But with the, with the one day incursions, with the full day incursions, the 95 percent of my incursions are years five and six combined normally, or just year six or year seven and eight.

So it's always five and six or seven and eight normally. But with author talks, it's any age because it's a 45 minute talk and it's just to promote. Um, learning, reading, writing, and entrepreneurship. So we can tailor that to, to any 

Martin: age. Amazing.

[00:25:39] Helping Kids Find Ideas

Martin: Um, yeah, do you kind of, you must come across a few challenges, um, along the way 

Claire: during the incursions and 

Martin: things to me?

Uh, yeah. Well, yeah. Um, challenging, you know, students that, you know, maybe aren't as invested as, uh, some of the other kids [00:26:00] or yeah, it could be a number of 

Claire: things. I think one of the challenges for some kids and Tyra and I were speaking about this recently is some kids will just be like, I know what I want to do.

I'm so, you know, driven and focused and I want to make a jewelry business and I make clay jewelry every weekend, but you'll get quite a few kids that just say to me, Claire, I don't know. What I'm interested in, you know, because the first step for me is, is to discover your big idea, right? So we talk about what we love and our passions and what we're good at and our strengths and some people say I Just have no interest and no strengths and I'm like sure you do.

Sure you do. You know, what what do you do at the weekend? What do you put? What do you Google? What do you do after school? What and it just takes that It's just driving that information out of them and everybody has skills. Everybody has interests like Of course you do. What, what do you read? What, where do you go in the bookshop when you, you know, so yeah, I guess that's the biggest challenge sometimes it's getting the [00:27:00] kids to recognize the things that they can do and that they're interested in.

Martin: I can, yeah, I, I do understand that I, I, I didn't have a kind of set plan. Like I definitely, Tara, at your age had definitely had no plan as to what I wanted to do. Uh, it was more just like, oh, I really like design and I really like, um, woodworking and, you know, getting all these different bits and pieces. I did media studies.

[00:27:26] Life Is Experimental

Martin: Uh, it's, um, I guess when you look at it like that. Then I could probably, yeah, there was a bit of a clear plan, but nothing, nothing sort of knitted together. Um, yeah. 

Claire: Oh, and you know what? Like from Tara's age all throughout your twenties, you're just discovering it, right? Like I'm nearly 40 and I've just started a business with kids, right?

I could have carried it and said, Oh no, I'll stick to sales and marketing for the rest of my life. But yeah, you've got your whole life, you know? So it's all just experiment experimentally. [00:28:00]

Martin: That's very true. 

[00:28:02] Standing Out Locally

Martin: Um, I was going to ask you about competition, but we've kind of covered that. Um, unless there's, you know, there are any that are very similar to you or is it more, yeah.

Claire: Um,

No, I mean, I suppose each company has their own twist or their own thing that they want to promote. Um, with the books now we can do, Tara and I are going to do, uh, author illustrator talks. So it just adds an extra thing where it's not a full three hour workshop. It's not a full day workshop. It's just a gentle entry into it.

So I think that's something else that we offer. And we're so, um, although we go. Anywhere. We are very, um, community minded and we've had a lot of support from, from Newey and all of our local contacts. So, yeah, yeah. I haven't seen anyone in Newcastle, which is good.[00:29:00]

Martin: No, that is good. 

[00:29:04] Perseverance And Gratitude

Martin: Um, are there any values you stick to rigidly?

Claire: I'm trying to think of the values which I'm trying to, um, promote with my own kids as well. I mean, I guess one of the main things is perseverance, right? So anything that we do, it's easy just to give up. And you, you know how it is. And we're in this quick fix world where everything's so accessible and everything's, you know, there in the click of a button.

And I always. I have to remind myself, you know, you only fail. when you stop trying, right? And you have to persevere and you have to not give up. And I say that to my kids all the time and they'll try, you know, like any kids, they'll try to skateboard. And after the first half an hour, they're like, I'm rubbish.

I'll never be good. And you just have to persevere. Yeah. Yeah. [00:30:00] Yeah. So perseverance. And, um, I guess, uh, gratitude. I feel like, um, we always have to remind ourselves and we'd have to try to give without take and I, you know, going back to our local community, I feel like we live in a beautiful community here because there are so many people like the awesome Newcastle experience that we've both experienced where they're just willing to give, they don't expect anything, they want to help you and the amount of people I've rang and said, Hey, can we just meet for a coffee?

15 minutes? 20 minutes, half an hour, whatever. And I would love to just ask you a few questions and people just happy to give their time. So gratitude and trying to do that for other people as well. 

Martin: Nice. Yeah, I think that perseverance, uh, aspect is, uh, really important. I think, um, I think there's a point where you kind of feel like an adult as you stop learning and you stop kind of trying to learn.

[00:31:00] Um, but like, I, like, there's been a few instances where I've. You know, started doing crazy things like trying to do a handstand and you're like, I can't do a handstand, but with like enough practice and training, you can actually get to doing a handstand or a headstand or, you know, doing some of those crazy things.

You're like, well, you know, you just have to keep at it and yeah, and try, give it a go. You're always going to fail, but you can always improve as well. 

Claire: That's it. Nothing good ever came easy, right? Yeah. 

Martin: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:31:32] Remote Book Collaboration

Martin: Um, so yeah, I mean, I don't know if we've spoken about it. I'm a bit of a book guide, worked in publishing for four years or so.

And yeah, then I want to obviously yeah, bring Tara into the conversation as well. Um, so you've just released your first book. How did that all happen? And you know, what did you, yeah, what have you learned along the way? 

Claire: Well, believe it or not, Tara and [00:32:00] I have made this book together, and we have never met in real life.

No way! Never! And before last week, I don't think we'd even had a conversation, had we? No, 

Tara: we did the Zoom, um, talking about the school visits, but I, I find that really interesting as well. It's a cool little bit of trivia that we've done this all completely online through voice notes and text messages 

Claire: and Zoom calls.

It's really cool. Yeah. And 

Martin: isn't that, I was going to say, isn't that the, uh, just the way that everything goes now is you kind of, yeah, completely remote and, uh, I think, yeah, that's one big thing. 

Claire: Yeah. Uh, incredible. We, my long rambling voice notes to Tara pretty much every day. I know I was like trying to explain things like rambling on and, but she just get it.

She just knew what I wanted. Right. And then. Thank Yeah, the, the end product is just something that beyond what we could have both dreamt about.[00:33:00]

Martin: That's amazing. So yeah, obviously I was gonna ask you guys how you met, but how did you, was it, was it just a kind of coincidence or you've, you've declared you were looking for someone? 

Claire: Oh, I, um, actually taught Tara's brother in one of my workshops. Ah. And, um, Um, uh, East Maitland Library one day and I think I must have, myself and Tara's mum must have just followed each other on social media and then her mum just.

I started doing a few posts about Tara's artwork, and I was like, wow, she's amazing, she's incredible. So I started following Tara and then I had this idea to get these stories out there and just contacted her and yeah, the rest, the rest is history. 

[00:33:50] Illustration Brief And Portraits

Martin: So Tara, you have helped Claire, yeah, create the characters on the cover and I'm actually, I've been, I was told beforehand that you, um, you actually did some stuff in the inside as [00:34:00] well.

Um, so yeah. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. So 

Tara: when Claire sent me, um, like the accounts of each of the kids that were going to be featured in the book, um, I took some time to go through their social media and stuff. And it's really good to get like, um, different angles of the face and stuff. But I also really wanted to get like a feel for their businesses.

Um, cause they've all put so much work into this and it's really amazing. You can see what passion projects. Like all of their businesses are, and I really wanted to do that justice and capture them in the portraits. So, um, I've wanted Claire came to me with the brief and he wanted, um, these like eye catching dynamic poses.

And so I went with a few different like action shots, um, some of the kids holding their products. I'm really happy with how those turned out. Um, yeah. And I really like working with like bright colors as well. So it was a fun challenge to, um, [00:35:00] try and pick out, uh, different colors for the backgrounds to actually reflect the brands.

And I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. 

Martin: Yeah. I'm looking forward to having a good flick flow at some point. 

[00:35:13] Digital Workflow In Procreate

Martin: Um, obviously, uh, as a, as a designer myself, I'm a little bit old school, uh, so I sketch everything out and then finalize it digitally instead. Um, whereas a lot of people kind of tend to just go straight digital.

Um, can you walk me through your process a little bit? Yeah, that's 

Tara: awesome. Um, I, I agree that like traditional mediums, they're a really great way to get like the feel of the drawing before you get too into the details and stuff. Um. For the book illustrations, I did go completely digital, so I use, um, like, digital brushes that kind of, they mimic, like, the look and the feel of sketching pencils and stuff, um, which I like, because it just reminds you to stay loose and don't obsess over the little bits yet.

Um, [00:36:00] and yeah, I, I have sent Claire some of those first drafts and stuff and like, they're never pretty. Um, but I'm really glad that Claire trusted the process even through the ugly stages and 

Claire: stuff. Um, 

Tara: and yeah, outside the project, I, I do really enjoy doing like traditional mixed media. I do. Acrylics, watercolors, um, gouache, and you can kind of see how I use those same techniques in the digital artworks as well, um, because it's, it's really great.

Like you can't beat the feeling of an actual paintbrush in your hand and the control of the brushstrokes and stuff. So I always try and remind myself, um, to practice those techniques traditionally, um, so that I can apply them to my digital art. 

Martin: That's good. I, I love that. That's, um, yeah, I think you have, yeah, you've obviously found like a kind of process that works for you.

Um, I've seen you also do [00:37:00] a lot of stuff with procreate. So obviously, yeah, that's kind of how you're doing some of your digital stuff. Um, is that, is that a wrong the right lines?

Tara: Yeah, so I use procreate and an apple pencil to do my drawings. Um, and I really like being able to take it on the go and, um, just be able to work on it anywhere.

Cause you know, you can never tell when you're going to get that inspiration and, um, it's nice. I like, um, working on this project. It's been. Like really free that, you know, there's not set hours I could work on it at midnight if I wanted to, um, and so, yeah, it's really great having that creative 

Martin: freedom.

Yeah. And so, yeah, obviously was Claire's brief pretty open and kind of, uh, yeah, obviously directed to it to an extent because there was an end result, but yeah, was it fairly open? Yeah, 

Tara: it was and I'm I'm really grateful for that. Um, I [00:38:00] had a lot of creative freedom and she trusted the process. That's awesome.

Claire: And 

Tara: yeah, we just wanted these bright portraits that captured the kids energy. Um, we wanted Also to, you know, maintain the attention of kids who were going to read the book. Kids loved those bright colors and cartoony elements. And we experimented with a few different styles. Um, I think, yeah, some of the first sketches that I sent Claire were traditional.

Um, we thought about maybe like a watercolor storybook style. But I'm glad we went the path that we did. I think it turned out really, really

Martin: great. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I think the, the small bits and pieces I've seen, it looks, yeah, it looks amazing. Um, but yeah, in particularly, yeah, obviously the cover and the kind of, it's the way that all the kids are on there as a bit of a montage.

Um, 

Tara: thank you so much. We had a great 

Claire: evidence 

Martin: Yeah, no, that's, that's good. Uh, you definitely need those things as well. [00:39:00] Have somebody to help pull it all together. 

[00:39:03] Influences And New Mediums

Martin: Um, so I've seen on, I've been on your Instagram and had a look at a bit of your work and you obviously, you've done a bit of work with Clay and then I spotted that you'd done some stuff with Legend of Zelda models.

And then I was like, I was sat there wondering what your influences are. So yeah, well, how, where do you kind of find your influences? Um, yeah. Yeah, 

Tara: that's awesome. Um, so, you know, well, I do take commissions and I earn money off of my art. It's still a hobby. Like I really enjoy the process and doing it. Um, and so when I get a chance to combine it with other interests, that's always super fun.

And, um, right now I'm on a little bit of a mission to try as many different mediums as I can. Um, just being able to you. I do a lot of mixed media, so, um, using different elements and taking bits and pieces from everywhere to achieve like [00:40:00] my vision. Um, and yeah, ceramic and polymer clay, they've really caught my attention at the moment because the possibilities are literally endless.

Um, I really enjoy working with those 

Claire: mediums. Yeah. And 

Tara: yeah, um. I, I, I hope to continue, um, working with those kinds of things. 

Claire: Um, yeah, so you're looking 

Martin: at trying out new mediums. Yeah, awesome. So you're looking to obviously, yeah, carrot, keep going and, you know, sort of develop a bit further, um, working into sort of character design.

Claire: Yeah. Um, 

Tara: I'm, yeah, I'm trying to keep myself very open to new opportunities because like I never. myself as, um, a book illustrator and I never really had experience in the field. So, you know, I could have gotten into that headspace of, well, I, how am I going to know what to do? But if I had [00:41:00]turned Claire down when she came to me, I.

Would have missed out on so many amazing learning opportunities. Um, and I think, yeah, the publishing world can be a little bit daunting if you've never done anything like that before. So I'm really glad I had Claire to help walk me through that. Um, and I had so much fun. So, you know, I, I'd never want to turn down any opportunities that come up.

I want to see where it takes me. Yeah. 

Martin: Awesome. No, that's really cool. 

[00:41:28] Future Plans For Tara

Martin: So, you know, where do you, where do you kind of see yourself in the next sort of one to five years? What, what do you sort of see yourself doing, carrying on and yeah, turning this into a business with help with Claire's help, obviously.

Tara: Yeah. I'd love to keep working with Claire. I think we really have. Like, set the foundation to, um, keep going with this and explore lots of new avenues. Um, and, you know, the, I really enjoyed the process of illustrating a book, so it's led me to [00:42:00] sort of question, what are, what are my ideas for a book? Could I come up with something as well?

Um, and. Yeah, having Claire to show me, I was really involved with the whole publishing process which I'm really grateful for. I got to see a lot of the behind the scenes, um, and I was involved in a lot more than just the illustrations which I'm super thankful for. Um, so I would love to continue illustrating books.

I think it's a super interesting 

Martin: career. Yeah, yeah, it's, um, it's definitely having, yeah, been, been involved in it, it's definitely has its, uh, has its amazing moments where you, um, I mean, like, I, I, I worked in quite an unusual space and met some quite famous people doing it, but that was, yeah, it was amazing the amount of stuff that I learned in those first sort of four years.

Tara: It's amazing. Um, like the communities, um, I was saying to Claire that the, my favorite [00:43:00] part about this whole process is like the people we've met and the community we've built around this, um, so many amazing kids. They are so inspiring. Talking to their parents, um, and all these different, uh, like Shark Tank and TEDx that they've.

I've been involved with it's, it's really the people, you 

Claire: know, and 

Tara: yeah, I, I'd love to being a full time artist. That's definitely a dream of mine, but I love how flexible it is as a part time thing as well. So, you know, either way, I I'll be doing what I love. It's I love art. It's an amazing hobby and, um, love to continue whether, um, that's book illustrations or anything else.

Martin: Yeah. Amazing. 

[00:43:52] Claire’s Big Vision

Martin: Um, yeah, if, what about you, Claire? What, what's your sort of plan for the next, [00:44:00]uh, yeah, 5, 5, 1 to five years or so? 

Claire: That's a five year plan. . Oh yeah. 

Martin: Um, it doesn't have to be month. Month by month. . 

Claire: Let me bring the spreadsheet out. Um. Do you know what I would love to do more books with Tara?

Absolutely. I think we've got we've got this one set up now So we would love to do more in the series and and more entrepreneurial kids I'd love to do a picture book with her and I would love to do obviously more more incursions more school tours I'd like to work with some charities. I'd like to I'd love to do some kid biz awards and kid biz markets So like a safe space for kids, you know, um, to, to have their own stalls and their families and friends unity to come.

Um, yeah, I mean, big, big things that go and grow over the next few years and it's just, you know, I've kind of [00:45:00] just had to take stock of what's happened this year, you know, as an entrepreneur and as someone who runs their own business, as you know, you're just, um. Sorry, I think my internet is unstable. Um, yeah, you are just on a treadmill, right?

And you're just doing things and you need to remind yourself to stop and to think about all the wins and all the things that you've achieved and all the awards that you've won and all the, you know, you've got two books now, uh, this one, one coming out next year, you've got, um, Yeah, I think I've done I think I counted something like almost 50 workshops this year and Tara and I are going to be doing the School in school author talk.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to and to take Tara into a school It's just a whole nother level of saying hey this girl is only a couple of years older than you guys Yeah, you know and look at what she's achieved so far. So Yeah, I'm just excited for where it's all going to go and grow. Yeah. 

[00:45:58] Kid Biz Markets And Community

Martin: I love that [00:46:00] idea of the safe space.

And obviously we've had conversations about what, what you've, you know, you've got the book launch coming up and being able to give people that opportunity to network and, you know, be comfortable networking safely amongst, you know, people of similar age and have to have that opportunity is so rare. Um, cause it, you know, networking as a business is scary.

Claire: Oh, and like you said, a lot of adults don't know how to network and there's those networking events where, you know, they're all stuffy and everyone's there with a business card and they just look salesy and awful. And then there's what you do, which is just, let's go for a coffee and let's just have a chat.

Right. There's no expectation. It's just. It's just being friends. It's 

Martin: just people being human at the end of the day is, uh, you know, that, you know, we all like, love that human connection and finding people, meeting people that have similar interests or similar things going on in their lives. You know, they might have, um, you know, you've got, you've got kids.

I've [00:47:00] got, you know, so it's, yeah, that you just find those people that go, ah, and you just click and you go, ah, right. Yeah, let's see if we can do something together that's really cool. 

Claire: That's it, and to have the kids at an event. That's called a kid's market or a kid's party or whatever. It's not a stuffy networking event.

Yeah Yeah Something where the kids can chat to each and and their parents too can chat with each other because you know Their parents are along for the ride. Yeah You know like in the book, we've got Zave who's raised over a hundred thousand dollars for cancer, right? He's incredible and then we've got the like we said the shark tank and then We've got, uh, Mia, who's coming to the event, who's got a global brand and we've got Ollie, who's doing a recycled eco friendly fishing, um, Uh, fishing lures, and he won Awesome Newcastle Kids when I teamed up with Awesome Newcastle to do a kids version.

So they can all share these experiences and propel each other [00:48:00] further and support each other. Yeah. So, you know, it goes back to that perseverance thing again, like when you're on your own and when it's just. The parent and the kid, it's easy to kind of say, Oh, this is a bit hard. We're, you know, we've taken it as far as we can, but then when you're in a room with all these other kids go, Oh no, look at what they did and look at what they did and introduce me to, you know, so yeah, that's exciting.

Martin: Yeah, that's awesome. 

[00:48:23] Book Launch Details

Martin: So tell me a little bit about, um, well, technically when this podcast goes out, it's going to be tomorrow night. So tell me if, uh, you know, if people catch the podcast and in time, how can they kind of join in with your launch? 

Claire: Yes, so it will be at 5pm at Moa Coffee in Carrington, and it's open to the public, so anyone can come and buy a book, get your book signed by not only myself and Tara, but most of the kids that are in the book, so that will be super, super cool.

Um, yeah, and it's just. Super informal, um, there'll be cakes, there'll be drinks, the, [00:49:00] the coffees will be sold and, um, the kids, I've told the kids to bring some of their, um, wares, what they sell as well so that they have the opportunity to show them. So yeah, it's going to be a good, a good night. 

Martin: Awesome.

Tara, are you bringing anything? Are you bringing any wares? 

Tara: Nothing from myself. Um, I'll be there with Claire to sign the books. Um, we've got, yeah, we've got some little cupcakes, um, organized with the book printed 

Claire: on them, which I'm super excited for. 

Tara: That's awesome. But I think it will be amazing to meet all the kids there.

What they've done is absolutely incredible. It is. Yeah. So inspiring. Yeah. I want to get my book signed by all of them. They are just amazing. So I'm super duper excited. 

Martin: Oh, awesome. That's going to be, yeah, it's going to be good fun. I'm, I'm 90 percent sure that I'm going to come as well. Um, yeah, I'm keen to come and meet some people and, uh, yeah.

See what's been going [00:50:00] on. 

[00:50:01] Advice And Where To Find Them

Martin: Um Claire if the listeners have kids that are kind of growing up What are you know, are there any tips you want to share or say, you know, give them that yeah might inspire them 

Claire: Um, I guess the main thing is Just give them chance to express themselves, right? So whatever they're interested in just encourage them If they decide to start a business, it's fantastic You as a parent can be their silent partner so you can help them with things But remember that your kid is the boss.

They are the big thinker a lot of parents And we all do it. You just want to take over. You just want to say, Oh, I'll do that. Or, but don't do it. Let the child experience it. Um, so yeah, be their silent part of partner, but they're loud supporter. So, 

Martin: yeah, share them along the way. Absolutely. That's right. I love that.[00:51:00]

Um, so before we kind of wrap it up, where can people find you? Where do you want to sort of direct people to find you? Yeah. 

Claire: So, um, anyone can have a look at, um, kidbizacademy. au so www. kidbizacademy. au. K I D B I Z, kidbizacademy. au. Um, and also, uh, socials, it's just kidbizacademy. So Instagram, Facebook, um, yeah, just find me, send me an email and, um, yeah.

Chat with anyone. We do lots of, um, custom workshops and tailored to, to your community group, or it doesn't have to be a school. It can be, I do a lot of, um, libraries. I do a lot of, uh, homeschooling groups as well. So yeah, just get in touch and yeah. Amazing. Let me know. 

Martin: Yeah. Now going back to you, Tara, are you currently open for commissions?[00:52:00]

I am. 

Claire: Yeah. So 

Tara: it doesn't have to be a book. I've done pet portraits and birthday gifts, any sort of freelance illustration. Um, so yeah, if you're interested or even if you just wanna see what I'm up to, um, you can follow me on Instagram at Tara. Clark. Um, or you can email me at tarahirclark at gmail. com.

Amazing. I will, yeah, absolutely put all of those links in the show notes and, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's awesome. Thank you so much. Really good to have you guys on. 

[00:52:39] Final Thanks And Wrap

Tara: Um, is there any sort of final bits and pieces you want to... Drop truth bombs or, you know, uh, or what else could you, um, things you've never told other people.

Claire: More about the, the fortune teller. Um, no, I just really hope that you get to come to the launch and, um, yeah, we'll see you [00:53:00] there and we'll have a real good old chat and I'm sure that we will be in touch a lot more with what we're, what we're up to. And that 

Martin: sounds good. It's amazing. Uh, thank you both for coming on.

Claire: Yeah, thank you, Martin.