Making Building Easy with Kerri-Ann Hooper

Kerri-Ann Hooper on Building Smarter: Contracts, Cash Flow & Calling BS on Industry Norms

This episode is for anyone who's ever looked at a building contract and thought: Wait, where did that charge come from?
I’m joined by Kerri-Ann Hooper — straight-talker, industry shaker, and founder of a building company doing things differently.

We get into:

• The sneaky stuff hidden in building contracts (and how to spot it)
• Why COVID didn’t just shake up timelines — it reshaped trust
• What real estate taught her about branding, perception, and backing yourself
• How social media actually works for builders (hint: it’s not just before-and-after shots)
• And why building a brand with intention matters just as much as bricks and mortar

Kerri-Ann’s story is packed with real-life lessons — from overcoming financial hits to navigating unrealistic design expectations and championing transparency in an industry that’s not known for it.

Whether you’re in the game or on the tools, this convo is a blueprint for building better — businesses, brands, and homes.

Episode Highlights:
00:00 – Office Christmas Party Recap
00:57 – Meet Kerri-Ann: A Disruptor with Purpose
01:40 – Making Waves at a Networking Event
02:23 – Branding That’s Built to Last
07:44 – Real Talk on Industry Challenges
13:12 – The COVID Fallout
16:05 – Resilience in Action
22:01 – The Block vs. Reality
24:30 – Champagne Tastes on a Bunnings Budget
24:50 – Picking Colours That Rent, Not Just Impress
26:02 – How TV Trends Skew Real Life
27:43 – What’s Next for the Aussie Building Scene
28:50 – Energy Efficiency & Government Red Tape
29:48 – Prefab Homes and Smarter Living
30:29 – Why the Housing Crisis Isn’t Just About Houses
35:59 – Relationship-Driven Business
41:24 – How to Nail Social Media When You’re in the Trade
45:25 – Wrap-Up & Takeaways

Transcript

[00:00:00] Christmas Party Banter

Martin: But by the time this goes out, we, uh, we'll, it will probably have been done, so it's, yes, we'll say now, like just how amazing the Christmas party was 

Kerri-Ann: say now. So good food was amazing.

[00:00:17] Podcast Intro and Guest

Martin: This is the Level Up podcast. I'm your host Martin Sully, a brand strategist, designer, and founder of Snapper Studio, and I'm on a mission to help you gain clarity and confidence in your brand. I'll arm you with bite-sized tips and introduce you to friends of a show who are taking their brand to the next level.

Hello, listener. It's great to have your ears today. I'm talking to you from the land of Theba, and I'd like to pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging. Today's guest is the very energetic, bright orange [00:01:00] delight. That is Carrie Ann Hooper. For those of you who aren't familiar with Carrie Ann, she runs a brilliant company who, in my view, is doing an incredible job of disrupting the building industry from the inside.

When you build a new house and Carrie Ann can fill you in on the specifics. With a lot of builders, there are lots of sneaky charges in a building contract that unsuspecting families miss. These families are excited to build their dream homes and eager to start the process. 

[00:01:30] How We Met

Martin: Now to start, I want to get into how we met and tell you a bit of a secret.

Kerri-Ann: Okay. Hi. 

Martin: So you came to my networking event. Yes. Chatbox. Yeah. And I thought, wow, chatbox has taken off and, and it was purely because. You'd arrived. Oh. And 'cause I'd seen you on social media. Oh. And been like, she's all over the place. Like she goes to all these events. She's not been to our yet. And so then when you [00:02:00] turned up, I was like, oh geez, I, I was super nervous 'cause I'd never met you at that point.

Oh my gosh. Thank you.

So welcome to the studio. 

Kerri-Ann: Ah, thank you man. Oh, that's lovely. 

[00:02:14] Branding Fonts and Consistency

Martin: I just wanna kick things off slightly selfishly 'cause. I leave this sometimes to the end of the podcast. Yeah. And today I was like, I'm gonna mix it up. And so people, you know, I, as you know, customer research, um Yeah. Should power your brand. Yeah.

Actually talking to people, having those conversations. And it's should be, I mean, used to be this whole thing where people would. Speak to you. Um, and you would have, you wouldn't have this sort of dialogue between you. It used to be like, you'd just give them information, you'd never hear from them. 

Kerri-Ann: Right?

Martin: But now people. And they need, like, they need feedback just as much as you need feedback. And so it's, you know, it's this whole cycle of making sure that, you know, [00:03:00] you've got your research. So my question to start is, is there a ty is there a particular topic that you want to, um, like a better understanding of?

In branding? 

Kerri-Ann: In branding, um, probably all technical stuff because I'm not very good with the tech side of things, but everyone, as you say, everyone always tells me I'm everywhere on socials, but uh, you know, I'm just winging it most of the time. And, um, um, yeah, I suppose. To, um, yeah, with branding side of things.

I did hear you saying on one of your podcasts about the fonts mm-hmm. Like getting all your fonts right? Yeah. I think mine are a bit all over the place. So how, how 

Martin: many are you using? Yeah, 

Kerri-Ann: I actually don't know my, does that, but, um, yeah, I thought, oh, maybe I should look at that because I am a bit over the place with the fonts.

So you probably, your wording. Yes. Um, I was gonna 

Martin: say it's, it's. It is really hard, and I think once you, when you start using systems like [00:04:00] Canva Yes. And if you, I mean, I'm just assuming you do. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. 

Martin: Yeah. Uh, they, they, unless you pay for the premium subscription and you are embedding your fonts that you've kind of hands elected.

And said, no, these are the ones we're gonna use. And there's a bit of a system in play and some guidelines to say, okay, we're gonna use this font, this font, like the one that's in your logo, like. I always say don't use that anywhere else. Oh, okay. Use that as like, that's the top of the hierarchy. Yeah. Then from there, anything underneath is obviously not used.

Um, you wouldn't use the logo type in the rest of your branding. Yeah. Um, then you would select two or three different type faces that would be then used and you would obviously use like the italic version. For sort of emphasis on certain words. Bold, you know, a bold and the regular. 

Kerri-Ann: So any, like another two other than your, your logo.

Yeah. Good. Yeah, like it's 

Martin: just being really That's good. Really specific about it. [00:05:00] That just helps give you control and that consistency you are kind of looking for. Um, and it's, it is really hard. And then if you have two or three people also working on the brand or getting involved, 

Kerri-Ann: yeah, 

Martin: that's, you know, just, it doesn't naturally happen unless you've got.

Some, you know, strict guidelines that, you know, I like to say they're strict guidelines, but they, you know, rules are there to be kind of bent slightly. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: But, but at the same time, it's really difficult to. Yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: Manage. Yeah, that's good to know, to manage because I think, like even with my story, sometimes I don't, not using the same sort of font and I mean, TikTok is just a whole, whole other beast.

Martin: Um, but it's hard with stories and, and because obviously Instagram and TikTok and everyone and all, when you're doing captions on things like they have set fonts that they want you to use. Yes. Unless you, like I, some of the videos that I do. Off the back of it, have my fonts in there, but, but because I've processed it via different software 

Kerri-Ann: Oh, okay.

That 

Martin: most people wouldn't go to that [00:06:00] level. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: But it's, yeah, it's. Yeah. It's a lot to manage. 

Kerri-Ann: Well, I know. Yeah. So the logo is the main and then one or two after that. Yeah, one 

Martin: or two after that. And so to put it into context, I did a brand audit the other day for, uh, a local business. And I found, I think it was 17 different fonts.

Oh. Um, 

Kerri-Ann: I don't think I've got that many, but, 

Martin: but I'm not the extreme end, but built up over sort of three or four years. It's easy to. Kind of look at all the things that you've done and then go, oh, actually I have used like seven, eight different fonts. Yeah. And that's not uncommon. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. And as you say, if you have other people working on it.

Yeah, absolutely. Then they're coming in with their point of view ly. 

Martin: Yeah. Yeah. So, oh, that's good 

Kerri-Ann: to know. 

[00:06:44] Clear Website Messaging

Martin: Uh, now I've done my research for the day. We can kind of go straight in. I just wanna say your messaging on your website is super clear. Oh, 

Kerri-Ann: great. Good. 

Martin: I, and I actually wanted to know, did you invest in copywriting?

Kerri-Ann: I did, um, probably about three, four years [00:07:00] ago. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so I've just actually gone back in the last six months I was saying, um, I've gotta get back to my VA about a few things to just make it a little bit more clearer. A little bit more simpler. Yeah. So, but I, the about me page, yes. That's a copywriting.

Yes. Yeah, I was 

Martin: gonna say, I could, I could. Uh, when I jumped on there, I was like, you've got clear pain points. You've gone into, you know, what people expect of a new build and all the stuff that they are kind of missing out on. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. 

Martin: When they go via a builder 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: Via display. Um, yeah. And I, we've, we've looked around at them before and thought, wow, these look amazing.

Yes. And then yes. 

[00:07:39] Hidden Costs in Building

Martin: I was reading on your website that a lot of the stuff that you see is like, you are not included as standards. Yes. So you're like, ah, all this stuff is, you've gotta pay extra to have your driveway done, or, yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: And all the council requirements and site costs, like people just assume that's going to be done.

So that's the thing. They go to the display homes and they see all the, you know, it's all beautifully done. The driveway's [00:08:00] done, the fencing's done, the landscaping's done. There's even, you know, most of them, some of them have a pool. Um, but it's so sneaky, it's not. That's not true. I know. It's very sneaky.

It's very, I, it's very disappointing. It's not regulated. Um, it's not regulated. Oh. See, 

Martin: when you, when you get the, um, obviously you're building licenses and things, you think so. What was the license? No one's sort of catching them. Yeah, no one's catching them out. Yeah. No, it's, that's amazing. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, I suppose it's their marketing, uh, and then getting away with things.

Um, because really you're not allowed to offer a deposit from the client into your home. The home warranty insurance in place, which is the HBCF now, um, uh, home. Home Builders Compensation fund. But, um, yeah, a lot of them sort of, um, label their deposit in a different way. Um, so people are still paying, you know, five, $7,000 up front.

Um, and they're not even getting, that's not even giving them the true price. Because then they're like, [00:09:00] oh, now we have to go and do a contour survey. Now we need to go and do soil tests. Oh, your house is about another $20,000 more now. Oh, now going to put in council. No, we didn't include these reports. We didn't include the basics.

It's just the energy efficiency of your home. Oh, that's another 50, $70,000 more So, yeah, it's, it's not Right. 

Martin: That's incredible. 

Kerri-Ann: I've had so many people to, um, say that to me with my Tender Health checks, which is a bill contract review, say to me, well, you just don't know what you don't know. And it's not until I point that out to them, they're like, my God, I did not know that this was not included in the price.

I just assumed. 

[00:09:38] Hidden Fees in Agencies

Martin: So, and interestingly, I think there's a similar thing that happens with creative agencies, 

Kerri-Ann: right? Yeah. 

Martin: That there's often lots of hidden costs that people kind of sneak in. Yes. And I had a client the other day come to me off the back of having a rebranding done and they'd got all the photography done, um, to the, [00:10:00] in on the photo shoot, and I think the Photoshop cost them 25,000.

I obviously that's not, that's a lots your normal, like Yeah, like I've 

Kerri-Ann: paid $3,000 for one before, but then Trish Evans did mine $600. The other, you know, about last month. So, yeah. 

Martin: Yeah. So that mean the, yeah. In, in, in that respect, like, it's, it's absolutely wild. But they, so they, the, on top of that 25,000, they were also model fees.

Kerri-Ann: Ah, so 

Martin: then, wow. 'cause they'd use models. Models, yes. They wouldn't release their. Image rights until they'd paid another 10,000 to the models. So they had this beautiful photo shoot and like it was really good. But yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: But then they charged another $10,000 extra. Yeah. Wow. 

Martin: And the fact that they hadn't factored in that photo shoot in the rebrand.

So that came after they'd had all the rebrand and the website was quoted for the brand strategy. The brand strategy was laughable. But um. [00:11:00] Yeah, they, they just like, I mean, it was like another 35,000 on top of what they were paying anyway. And I'm like, that's like most businesses can't, can't cope with that.

[00:11:10] Carrie Ann Background Story

Martin: So talk me through your background and how you kind of got into, I did hear some. Bits of how you got into the industry with it. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, yeah, it's interesting. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. My background is real estate actually, so my parents selling 

Martin: or 

Kerri-Ann: selling and property management as well. So I started, um, as a secretary, actually one my dads, so my dad used to own real estate agencies.

Um, so I was about 16 secretary. Um, and then I moved into property management, and then I moved into sales. And then my hubby is, well, at that time was in the bank. Um, and we got moved to cs, so from Newcastle to cs. So, um, then I had to find a job and then I got, um, I was working for a builder, like on the, on, in the he display, um, uh, home on the weekends.

And then I ended up being in the bank, [00:12:00] which I didn't like. I hated it. Um, and then sort of came back and did bits and pieces all around my. Parents sold the business. Um, and um, it wasn't until I was 40 that I realized that I needed to do something. Like I was sick of working for someone else. I'm not a good employee.

I'll be not a good employer either, because I don't have much patience. So, um, yeah, I, um, just wanted to work for myself. So my sister and I started the business together. Um, so that's 13 years ago now. And, um, we sort of separated the businesses after about three or four years. So my sister took the property management side.

I. Stayed with the sales and yeah, she sold the property management side probably a year and a half ago now. So, yeah. So it's just, wow. Yeah, I just, there you go. Yeah. Just love sales and selling, selling houses off the plan 

Martin: and helping people. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. And helping people, isn't it? Helping 

Martin: those families, and I think that's the, the kind of, yeah, the, um, the, I mean, like to bring people into the, into any business [00:13:00] and help people is, you know, an amazing.

Uh, you know, opportunity that you've created and to be able to actually do that and you know, is, is amazing. I see. 

[00:13:12] COVID Supply Shock

Martin: Beforehand we had a little bit of conversation and we spoke about COVID. Yes. I wanted to. Sort of ask you about how it affected the business? 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, big time. Um, I suppose to begin with, with COVID, there was still the grants, the government grants, 'cause there was grants to build.

So they, you know, at one stage they were giving away 25,000 to, to build a home, and then it sort of went down to 20 and then 15. Um, but with, so they had so much demand for building. Then of course COVID happened and a lot of stuff like countries shut down a lot of things like timber was, um, brought overseas and they couldn't get that in.

So supplies, uh, materials started to dry up as well. Um, so therefore going back to the old supply and demand, um, there was more demand and not, not [00:14:00] enough supply. So prices went up. That's right. And they were going up weekly. Like normally and it's all leveled off now. Normally you'll have two price rises a year and now we're going up weekly in that time.

So those builders that were in fixed price contracts Yeah. They were just Yeah. Losing money and that's why a lot of them went broke. Yeah. So I had one of my builders go broke in 2021. Lost a lot of money, um, 'cause with commission that they owed me. Uh, so, but it just ha was happening all across the board and just people got scared.

Martin: So you don't also, obviously the builders pay you, don't they? Yes, they do. And they, yeah.

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: It's not that, you know, you, you are organizing it for the, uh, for the, the couple that you know, or the family that come to you. They don't pay you straight? No, it's 

Kerri-Ann: just an admin fee. I ask 4 95 an admin fee that just sort of covers my running around and I explain the contract or else if I, or else if I look at contracts with other builders that aren't my own, it's 4 95 as well.

But yeah. But, uh, I get [00:15:00] paid by the builder at slab and frame stage, so, um, so if there's any delay, I'm the one who's suffering. So losing, you know, a bit of money with, um, this one builder was Yeah, hurt. It hurt. Yeah. Yeah. 

Martin: That would've been. It was tough. That's extreme painful. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

[00:15:15] Builder Collapse Fallout

Kerri-Ann: And I got, because I've never been in that situation before where a builder's gone broke and I, you know, I had clients just ringing me, I, my name slander all over Facebook.

It was Yeah. Got, uh, yeah, very, um, touchy and Yeah. It wasn't the nicest place. Really messy 

Martin: because then you've got a lot of cleaning up to do. Yes. Afterwards with, you know, 'cause if, if it, if your reputation takes a nose dive Yes. Through no fault of your own. Yeah. Yeah. It's just somebody that you've been associated with.

Yep. Um, people then start to question your judgment as well as, oh, I, you know, Carrie Ann got involved in, you know, with this, uh, builder. Builder, yeah. Um, and it obviously wasn't the right move. I, yeah, it's really, really difficult. It was tough. Yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: It was very tough. So a good, [00:16:00] like, it was a good year riding that out.

So good year. 

Martin: No, like from from it. 

[00:16:05] Cashflow Survival Lessons

Martin: Did you, you know, was there anything you learned or you kind of took away that you said? 

Kerri-Ann: Um, I learned to be leaner in the business, not to have as many expenses that I did. 'cause obviously I had to look at my cash flow. Um, so that was a big thing because there was not a lot coming in.

That's not a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, I know. But you know, I've done things like sell cars where we needed to, like, you know, we were in fortunate position where we actually own the car so we could. You know, sell them and get the money, you know, virtually straight away we borrowed on a house. I've even sold jewelry to get, to get by in those times.

So it's been, yeah, it's, it's definitely a learning curve. Um, and I, I always think you need to have at least six months of the expenses sitting there in the bank account, especially after what I went through. Um, and that's, yeah, that's what 

Martin: I work on now. Yeah, fair enough. That's, I mean, it, it does make sense.

There's so many, um, obviously we get a lot of [00:17:00] education around, you know, from, from people and there's a lot of people handing out advice as well, which kind of helps. Um, some of it useful, some of it not so much. Yes. Yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. So all the, as I say, cashflow is king. Money, cash is king, and you just, it all comes down the basics.

Get, I mean, I still work off an Excel spreadsheet. I mean, I've got zero, but, um, I just love looking at my Excel spreadsheet, so you just gotta Yeah. Those expenses. 

Martin: Yeah. I, I fully, fully understand that. I had, um, I was, when I first sort of went into the business, I had a, a guy sort of give me some sales coaching stuff, uh, was really useful.

Yeah. And then I saw him about 6, 6, 12 months later and he was like. Well, all these stuff, why are you just not outsourcing it overseas? You can make way more money. I'm like, that's not how I'm gonna, that's never in the plan. Yeah. That's not my way of doing it. And I think, yeah, there are a lot of people making really good [00:18:00] money from people by just outsourcing overseas.

And I'm like, yeah. I just, I like to have a little bit of control over control. Yeah. Yeah. Every now not, I'm trying to, not myself, make myself look like a control. I. Freak. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I haven't outsourced actually yet with anything from overseas, so yeah, I just have my VA who's local. 

Martin: Yeah.

Yeah. And, and the same goes, I, you know, outsource few, some of the web development stuff because it's not something I specialize in. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: Um, yeah. There's gotta be a break somewhere. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:18:37] Post COVID Client Shift

Martin: Um, when going back to COVID, yes. Did it. Kind of make you shift the vision for the business. So going forward, obviously you had to recoup the money that you had lost.

Yes. Did that then shift, uh, the vision and kind of what you saw? Was the business different before COVID to it afterwards? 

Kerri-Ann: I, as in client base, it's [00:19:00] definitely different because before COVID it was a lot of, um, first time buyers that I would help. Now it's more investors. I really think the media is still scaring, um, people, like first time buyers from.

To build, even though I think it's fabulous 'cause we've built five times. But um, yeah, I think the client base has definitely shift shifted from there. And I still think the media, um, sort of is not that great with how they treat builders, um, and building, I mean, it's a fabulous way to get your new home, but um, yeah, I, yeah, it's definitely the client base and, and hopefully that'll shift next year when we've got these interest rates that have.

Supposedly going to come down. Yeah. Um, but you know, that, that might help. But, um, yeah, and I mean, we need what, thousands and thousands of homes built in New South Wales, but they really need to give, get a bit more of an incentive out there as well. But yeah, maybe not as much as last time because that did create a, a really bad problem with it.

Martin: So, yeah, I, I [00:20:00] fully understand that. 

[00:20:00] Renovation vs New Build

Martin: So we, um. We bought a place, uh, just, uh, previous to this place. Yeah. Um, needed a lot of work done. So we did all the renovations ourself and then we, we sold that one, um, because we sort of half bought it with my wife's parents. 'cause we were, we were all new, we were all fresh to the area.

Yeah. Um, didn't know anything. Didn't, hadn't we'd never been to Australia before, but waited that sort of. Five or six months or so, um, before buying somewhere, bought a place, renovated it, and then sold it to sort of part ways Yeah. With, um, my wife's parents and then bought this place. Yeah. And. We were just about on the brink of, well say on the brink of having a baby, but my wife was pregnant.

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: Um, and she was like, I just don't want to go into doing more renovations or doing anything like that right now. Um, and that's how we fell on this place. We were like, the kitchen's. [00:21:00]Done. Everything's done. Yeah. The only places, there's a couple of rooms that need a bit of work and we could have some better cupboard space.

Um, like so if storage is a bit of an issue, storage, but it is always an issue 

Kerri-Ann: thing to do. 

Martin: There's always way. Yeah. Yeah. And like, um, um, a note on your website you mentioned about, um, laundries and like Yes, good laundry storage and like, don't go in laundry. 

Kerri-Ann: Well, even our laundry isn't all that great. No.

Like I didn't put any thought into that, but. 

Martin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 

Kerri-Ann: yeah. Well, um, we've never renovated, we could never renovate, I don't think. We've always built new, so Yeah. I can't, um, comment on renovations. 

Martin: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think it's interesting. I would, I would have a look at it, um, you know, a new build for sure.

Um, especially as when I was gonna speak to you about this as well, 'cause I'm, I'm interested in seeing, um, yeah. Like. 

[00:21:54] The Block Expectations

Martin: In Australia, we have the blog. Yes. Um, and I dunno what now this, [00:22:00] let's see where this goes. Um, but for people that aren't local, um, it's five teams of two. They kind of take on the challenge to build a house in like 13, 14 weeks.

It's um, but that's not normal, right? No, that is not 

Kerri-Ann: normal. And to have trades turn up. Well, actually they do sometimes have problems with trades, but Yeah. Trades working around the clock. 

Martin: Yeah. And so they, they effectively, they choose everything to go in all the rooms. Yes. Then they get all the tradies to come in and basically build it and they kind of do some painting and some finessing of the, sort of the end product.

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: Um, and it's pretty, it is pretty impressive. And then they auction it off. It's, 

Kerri-Ann: I love to see their inspection report. So at the end of a building inspection. Inspector, I mean, I know there's all builders on site and you've got Scotty Cam, but I'd love to see what an building inspector report says because that's quite quick.

That is quite, yeah. 

Martin: So I mean like, yeah, so they auction off and you know, they [00:23:00] win whatever the, you know, is, goes above reserve. Yes. To me, that always brings up more questions. So, you know, like does it, do you think it changes people's perceptions of what they can expect when they have a new build? 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, especially with inclusions.

I mean, obviously on the block you've got the gorgeous bathrooms and gorgeous bar and they get given like hundreds of thousands of dollars to Yes, exactly. Add to the budgets. Yeah. And I'm sure there's a lot of sponsorship sponsorship there too, like with free freebies. Um, I think so 

Martin: when you're like in you hair, like, oh, this is the Disney plus clubhouse, or whatever it is, and you're like, they must have put in a lot of money.

A lot of 

Kerri-Ann: money. Yeah. I mean, looking at bathrooms, you know. I don't think any of them have standard chrome taps. They've always got beautiful brush gold or black and, um, your shower, you've got two shower roses, you've got shower ledges, you've got beautiful shower screens. You know, it's a lot of money. 

Martin: It's a lot of money.

And when they, they put the price of the, how much the room cost to, to build at the end of it, [00:24:00] at the end of that week. And I'm like, I'm looking at it. I'm like, how did they. Build a kitchen for 30 thou. 33,000. Yeah. And like, and have all the appliances that they've got on the cupboards and like everything.

Yeah. I'm like, it's, it's too cheap. 

Kerri-Ann: It is. Especially with a, uh, like, I mean, they've got thermo lemonade paneling on the, on the cupboards, and I know that that's, that's quite expensive. So yeah, if you're saying let's include, apply. Appliances as well, and they're top of the range appliances and all the new gadgets.

[00:24:30] Block Budget Reality

Kerri-Ann: I mean, you look at the laundry, I mean, they've got the drying cupboards and all that, cabinets and all that, which is what I want, but I know they're like 3000, $5,000 just for that. So, and then they've got the dog, um, bath and the dog beds and yeah. So it's creating an unrealistic expectation. It's beautiful to look at.

Yeah. Gorgeous. Gorgeous to look at. Yeah. 

[00:24:50] Neutral Colors For Resale

Kerri-Ann: Um, I mean, some of their color selections are very questionable, I would say. Um, and some of them are just, you know, they're thinking, they're not thinking ahead. I always say, [00:25:00]especially for people who are investing. You've gotta, you've gotta keep your collar scheme neutral.

'cause I mean, that's gotta stand around, you know, for 10 years. Um, 'cause I always say to hang onto your property for at least 10 years. Um, so a lot of those collars in the block, you just think another year down they're gonna be so old fashioned. So yeah. And 

Martin: that's the same, that's the same as what we found when we bought the place that we renovate.

Yeah. It had these like chocolate brown walls and you're like, chocolate brown. Why? They're like almost poo color. Yeah. Awful. 

Kerri-Ann: Well, you'd even think like the pinks, I mean they're still popular now, but you know, in a couple of years time they might not. So I always say keep to your whites, your grays, maybe a little bit of a timber in accent.

Keep it very neutral. If you're going to invest. I mean, obviously if it's your own home, you know, go, go wild. If you think that you know, another four years, you can change it, that's fine. But investment it. Completely different. Yeah. 

Martin: Yeah. Oh, it's painful. Yeah. 

[00:25:54] Does The Block Drive Leads

Martin: Um, do you think I've written a question down?

I'm like, I'm looking at it now and I'm like, it [00:26:00] doesn't make any sense. Ah, okay. Uh, off the back of the block, do you get increased inquiries? 

Kerri-Ann: Not, not really. No. I, it's good for my blogs that I can, it gives me some content. Yeah. Um, 'cause I know that, um, what was it? The, um, one of the bathrooms. Oh yeah. Like a stripey bathroom.

It was recently, it looked like a circus tent. 

Martin: Yeah. I know. The one, apologies to the block people. We, we watched it. My wife was like, oh, I'm really into this now. I'm like, I'm not that. Bothered, but Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll just, yeah, it's on in the background while I'm cooking and Yeah. Um, but it's, it's really, uh, yeah, some of the.

Question. Like very questionable. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. The colors, yeah. Very questionable, but not so much. No. Maybe, um, people might reference it a little bit with color selections 'cause I'm with my clients, you know, for the whole day or if it takes two days with the colors. So I, you know, occasionally I do hear that come up.

Um, but yeah, 

Martin: the colors [00:27:00] side of it is such a big thing. 

[00:27:01] Brand Before Aesthetics

Martin: I mean, like, it's one of the things interesting I get. I, when I do a strategy session, it's one of the first things that, like somebody said to me the other day, like, when do we start looking at colors? I'm like, just like, forget all of that stuff. Like we will get to it.

Yeah. And we will like make sure that we get to the right point. We first, we've gotta work out, you know, like what's the foundations of, of the business and how are we kind of integrating it and what are the customers, you know, what are we trying to communicate? 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, oh yeah, that's the thing.

A visual thing is always so important to people, so yeah. 

Martin: It's interesting how people get kind of slightly hung up on it. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. 

[00:27:43] Future Homes And Efficiency

Martin: Um, last, I guess kind of last big topic. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: When the future of building Yes. Uh, when I went to Hong Kong probably 15 years ago or so, like. The space was like a premium and I think obviously we're, we're at that [00:28:00] kind of point.

Now we need more homes. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. 

Martin: Like can you go see us going to smaller plots or is there like. Is there some sort of innovation that we're kind of, we're gonna expect to see or that people are working on in the background? Kind of? Um, 

Kerri-Ann: as far as quietly, yeah, as far as perception of smaller blocks has actually completely changed from like 10 years ago.

'cause if you said to someone 10 years ago. This block of land's, 400 square meters, that'd be like in shock. Like it was always 600, 700 square meters. So yes, I see developments, um, with less land, like around 300 to 400 square meters for a block of land, and people now think that's quite normal. Um, so, um, and going to that, then they're more going to the double story because you want your footprint to be smaller so it have a little bit of a yard.

Um, as far as things changing the energy efficiency of home, like the, um, that's what the government wants. So they're with the bass, they brought out new rules about a year ago. The government [00:29:00] wants you to be your home to your bills to be less, your energy bills. Um, so probably more improvement in that space.

I mean, at the moment, you know, homes, especially double story homes that all, most of those windows have to be double glazed. Yeah. You've gotta have ceiling fans in every room. Yeah. Um, your installation is increased, your water tanks increased, you've gotta have solar panels. So, um, there are moving away from gas and saying that, I've seen some vasic saying that they want to have electric, like, um, they want gas more than electric.

So it's a bit up in the air, the gas. Versus the electric, but probably more in that space, I'd say, um, will be coming through, um, more innovation as far as insulation goes as well. Yeah, 

Martin: that's interesting. So, um, uh, a long story. One of my clients has got another business, and they do down in Melbourne, they do prefabricated homes.

Yes. 

Kerri-Ann: Modular. 

Martin: Modular, like click together. Yes. [00:30:00] I, I can see that being, yes, definitely a big thing that could. Sort of grow. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. It's hasn't sort of gone, you know, completely, um, you know, popular in this area. Um, but it's definitely, yeah, it's definitely on the horizon. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And people are considering it now.

Again, like I said, compared to 10 years ago, they never, ever think of that. Well, even like Granny Flats weren't really that much of a thing, you know, 10 years ago, so. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:30:26] Affording Homes For Kids

Martin: Um, alright. So. I, I guess that one of my main concerns is like my kids growing up, you know, in the next 20 years I'll say like, how are they gonna, you know, what's gonna happen?

You have to afford it. Yeah. Like, what's gonna happen? I'm like, so interested. But I also saw something the other day. My wife sent me a thing that said, um, you know, if you charge 'em $300 of rent every month from the age of like 18 to 25, when they normally kind of. Flee. [00:31:00] Um, they would have enough for like $25,000 in a deposit.

And I'm like, but 25,000 isn't enough. 

Kerri-Ann: No, it's not enough now. No, no. To 

Martin: even get. A portion of looking at getting a property. 

Kerri-Ann: I know. Well, 30 years ago when we were married, um, we had, I think it was about $3,000 and a house in land was a hundred thousand dollars. So yeah, that's what we brought. It's just crazy, isn't it?

I think it's going to be relying on generational wealth as in using parents' homes for. You know, GU tours. Yeah. And 

Martin: that's pretty much how we got on the market. Yeah. Is, you know, we didn't have the deposit. 

[00:31:38] New Zealand Outdoors Chat

Martin: We'd just moved from New Zealand and spent, uh, saved up some money, but really just enjoyed being in New Zealand traveling.

And like, it wasn't, it wasn't, our first thought wasn't like, you know, we should really should be saving up some of this money that we we're making. Um, it was more just like, oh, how can we go and see [00:32:00] like New Zealand? It's amazing. Right? Yes. 

Kerri-Ann: I haven't been there the most, the most 

Martin: incredible time. Mike 

Kerri-Ann: looks beautiful.

Martin: Yeah, it really was. We, um, we used to go, uh, every sort of week weekend, both days we'd go walking in like the local wa rainforest effectively. I was stunning. Yeah. Um, 

Kerri-Ann: I'm not really an outdoor person. But I, I, I do wanna go to New Zealand. There's, oh, they do have no, they don't have snakes there, do they? No, they don't.

They don't have anything. So we, 

Martin: we had to go through, so I would that we had people visiting from Australia. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: And we were like taking them through like these, like going through, like walks through rivers and stuff. But we were just like crossing the rivers and like not worrying about it. 'cause we were just like, it was summertime, it was.

Really hot and we were just like, oh, we'll just go. We'll, like there is a route where you can do, and you kind of just zigzag through this river. Yeah. Um, and then you get to the top of this waterfall, you can then, like, you walk down to the bottom of the waterfall and like you can go [00:33:00] swimming in the bottom or this waterway like amazing, but you're like, oh, we're just walking past all these eels and stuff.

And like here you're like. I, no, no, it's way too risky. 

Kerri-Ann: Do they have bad spiders in New Zealand? No. Um, a 

Martin: few white tails and things, but nothing like a funnel whip. No, no, no. That's, I'm like, yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. And so, well, our next movie wanna be on a bit of land, but then I'm, I'm worried about the snakes and the smartest.

So, uh, I just, yeah, that's, that's the thing about Australia. That's why I'm not an outdoor campy. I don't camp. 

Martin: No. So I, I, I, I thought right in the UK I was a, I was a camper, like properly set up. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, because you don't have to worry about anything buying. You don't 

Martin: worry about that. And then we were like, we moved to, we had obviously the plan to move to Australia and then we were like, we're never gonna camp again.

Ever. No. Um, and now we are like, uh, we kind of got over that fear pretty quickly. Oh, did you? Just kind of realized still there. It's 

Kerri-Ann: okay. My shark feel is there too in the water. So sort of [00:34:00] stuffed on both sides. 

Martin: You just spend your time building houses. 

Kerri-Ann: I know. Yeah. No, well, not really. My five stars are in a motel.

Five stars. That's about it. I 

Martin: like that as well. It's nice to, it's nice to treat yourself occasionally. Yeah. 

[00:34:15] Tech Free Kids Holidays

Martin: But you know, I think it, um, like with, with the kid, I think with the kids, it's like when every time we've taken them on holiday. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. 

Martin: And then we've had like two, even, two or three nights away, like the change in them that we see when they haven't got access to their normal stuff.

Technology stuff. Yeah. Like we've got young kids, so like their brains are so Mel moldable. Yes. Um, that all the technology and stuff is really hard to kick. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. 

Martin: But as soon as you're away from that stuff, like you, you go to the beach, you go for a swim in like all those sorts of things that you just kind of spend all day doing all that stuff.

Yeah. And being outdoors and kicking a football around or whatever. Um, yeah. It's just [00:35:00]changes the Yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: I'm so glad my kids grew up without, I mean, they had the Nintendos but they grew up without, you know, Facebook and all that sort of stuff, so, yeah. Oh, well Facebook was sort of there, but yeah, not like the Snapchatting and all that sort of stuff.

I'm so happy they didn't grow up with that. And like, and when they're in their prams, I didn't sort of hand them like a iPad. It was literally toys. 

Martin: Yeah. I have it here. I have a toy and like my, my, uh, probably 'cause I'm a bit bit obsessive, I used to draw and, you know, do everything. As a kid, I just spent the, the time drawing.

Yeah. And like my daughters. Incredibly artistic. So I'm like, if she's in a happy place, just drawing. Yes. And I'm like, it's beautiful. Yeah. That's great. It's amazing. Yeah. I'm really happy that she's found that.

Kerri-Ann: Yes. Yeah.

Martin: Um, but yeah, I, you know, that's, um, that's amazing. I'm just having a look and sing if there's any more amazing questions.

Ah. 

[00:35:59] Networking And Personal Brand

Martin: You [00:36:00] obviously you do loads of networking, don't you? 

Kerri-Ann: Yes, yes. I am a bit exhausted at this time of year. It's towards the end of the year we're recording this. I am a bit exhausted. I've been invited to a few more. I was like, I can't fit any anymore in um, yeah, I love getting out there in my orange suit and, um, 'cause people.

Recognize me from my orange suit and yeah. 

Martin: Question, if they see you outside of a work context, do they people still recognize you? 

Kerri-Ann: Um, sometimes I do wear orange outside of work contest, but yeah, no, I, I dunno, I dunno. Normally if I'm like, not wearing orange, I'm seeing a musical or something in Sydney with my daughter.

So 

Martin: from that question, um. When the more networking you do, do you find that the community, uh, become, that you've kind of are connected with, becomes stronger? Like Yes. Is it you see the benefits of doing that and having those conversations? Because when, when you go to networking, you don't instantly [00:37:00] expect everyone to just go, okay, yeah, I need to build a new house.

Yeah, exactly. Or I wanna get a contract review. Like imagine. I imagine you can probably count on one hand exactly how many times you 

Kerri-Ann: exactly have had somebody 

Martin: go, oh, I've got something. Can you help me? 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. So I find that networking's two things. So with working for myself, um, it's great to just go out and talk to other business owners and I honestly do count them as business friends and I love.

Catching up with them. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Martin: All my clients like I will build this a relationship where it's just like they're just an extension of my 

Kerri-Ann: workload. Yes, exactly. So I love that from that. Perspective and it's getting out and socializing. The other perspective is of networking is it gives you credibility.

Um, so when people, you know, they might be at the barbecue and say, you know, and someone's talking, oh, I might, might build, I'm not sure of it. Then they, you come top of mind. It's being top of mind all the time. [00:38:00] Orange, top of mind. Yeah. It's like, but then, um, I, I had someone last week that I, um, just met for the first time.

She goes, oh, I know you from social media. But then she said, well, what do you actually do? And I thought, oh, okay. So maybe I need to point out more what I do more. But, but then again, it was reckon I was recognizable. I was walking, I had orange on. 

Martin: Yeah. Oh, it's really hard, isn't it? I think, um, when you're building that personal brand, it's become this.

Thing that you kind of have to invest in, have to keep doing. Yeah. And sometimes, yeah, the connection between, okay, what do you actually do? And yeah, isn't, is really hard to get across, but, but on the flip side, you get to know that person. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. Yeah.

Martin: Believe that they're actually, you know, they've. They're actually a person that you could have a conversation with.

Yeah, exactly. 

Kerri-Ann: Exactly. And have a 

Martin: laugh with. Yeah. 

Kerri-Ann: Yep. [00:39:00] And I'm like, 

Martin: oh, that's, that's perfect. I'm like, that's why I am, you know, so grateful that you come along to chatterbox because without people like you turning up regularly, like it's, it wouldn't be the same. 

Kerri-Ann: Oh, thank you. And can I just say on the networking thing too, you don't have to spend.

Hundreds of dollars every month, either. There's a lot of free networking out there as well. Um, and I always say if you get invited to someone, just say yes. I mean, you just never know. What that might lead to. And then I also believe in the, in the coffee catch ups as well. Even though I don't drink coffee, I drink hot chocolate.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you have a hot chocolate. Yes. Yeah. Hot chocolate all the time. I need to really stop that. But anyway, um, so, but you know, just meeting one-on-one with people and that could be someone you know, that you've met with network working or someone that you want to do business with or have that association with, that's so important too.

And that just costs, costs of coffee, you know, so it's. It doesn't have to be spending those hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month. Yeah. 

Martin: I, [00:40:00] I agree. I, um, I've just sort of, I regularly just reach out to people and say, look, hey, like, let's grab a coffee. Yes. Um, not, you don't, you don't need to expect anything from it.

Kerri-Ann: Yep. 

Martin: It's, um, I think that's the hardest thing that people don't learn when they first start in business. Yeah. It's, it not everything is gonna happen instantly, right? Yes. This a slow burn. It's so rare. Slow burn this a slow burn. So show be socials. Yeah. Two and a half years of, of just grinding out. Yeah.

And then you get COVID gets in the way. Yes. And then you go as another two and a half years off the back of it, and then you start to see some traction again. Yeah, I 

Kerri-Ann: know. Yep. It's a rollercoaster. There. I mean, I wouldn't have it any other way, you know, owning my business, like I said, I can't work for anyone else but it, you have to be prepared for the rollercoaster.

You have to stick it out. Perseverance, I think is the, the key. And no matter if there's no plan B, you would do whatever [00:41:00] you can to stay in business. Like I said, sell the car, so, so. Right. No, don't try and try and hang onto the house, but I mean, if that's, I mean, well, Janine from, um, boost, she sold her house to fund the Boost franchises.

So if that's what you gotta do, but yeah, I 

Martin: mean, she's done pretty well. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes, she has mind her business. 

[00:41:24] Social Media And SEO Grind

Martin: So how can people reach you and keep in, keep in contact? 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn a lot, so that's. Not so much in my business name, but with my name Carrie Ann Hooper. So please, um, come and have a chat to me on there.

Um, you'll see me on Instagram Carnelian projects, so C-A-R-N-E-L-I-A-N projects also with Facebook. Um, TikTok, gosh, I don't dunno what I'm doing on TikTok, but you know, I'm there. Um, and Pinterest as well. Under Carnalian. Yeah. Not on X, whatever it's called. What the, the new Twitter, whatever. The alt 

Martin: Twitter, whatever, we, we don't talk about it.

Kerri-Ann: No, no, [00:42:00] no. As I said, tiktoks hard enough for me to keep up with. I literally just post things and like, okay, I am leaving now. Whereas with Instagram, um, and LinkedIn and Facebook, I will chat to you on those. You know, I love those platforms. So yeah, 

Martin: they are, they are like mostly positive. Uh, experiences.

Kerri-Ann: Yeah. I find Facebook, I'm not getting as much traction as I do from Instagram and LinkedIn, so Yeah. Yeah. Don't get as much interaction, so, yeah. 

Martin: Yeah. I would've thought your audience. Um, being the investors would probably, would be more likely to use Facebook than, unless they're just 

Kerri-Ann: watching, not actually commenting.

But I must admit though, with my website and when I have a look at the, you know, the stats, Facebook does direct a bit to the Yeah, but it's, 

Martin: they do also say that when people are silent, it's because they're contemplating. 

Kerri-Ann: Right. Okay. Mason. So 

Martin: sometimes when you post something on any of the platforms, sometimes if it resonates too [00:43:00] well, I.

You don't actually end up getting as much engagement, but they will read it and at a lighter point yes. May get in touch because they're kind of banking up. Yeah. Those little touch points and going Okay. Um, and then they, or they're just waiting for that right point to say, okay. Um, yeah, and that's why the, the consistency part is what people, you know, are always, you know, talking about just being consistent on social media and it one of the hardest things to actually do.

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, I know it is like a beast that you've gotta feed it every day, especially. Yeah, all the time. And you know, sometimes, and I, I appreciate my stage of life 'cause I don't have little kids. My kids are in their twenties, but, you know, I'm doing some of that social at like 10 30 at night. You know, I've obviously, I had little kids, I wouldn't be able to do that.

So, um, yeah, it's just, you gotta do, it's 

Martin: quite often when I find that I'm doing stuff as well. Yeah, yeah. There we are. Just late night sitting on the line. 

Kerri-Ann: Watching tv, it's like, oh gosh, I've got a post. Got a post. 

Martin: Gotta write a blog. Yeah. [00:44:00] Gotta gotta do something. Yeah. I need to do that more. I'm 

Kerri-Ann: only doing that once a week.

It's like, uh, I think a it's two or three once 

Martin: a week's Fine. Yeah. If you're doing a blog post, like, I wouldn't, um, I had someone tell me it's gotta be two to three 

Kerri-Ann: times a week. I had like 

Martin: Yeah, yeah. But that could also include like, updates on your old, like old content. Oh, oh. Like bring to like, um, like my.

My blogs, I regularly try to refresh, especially if my, 'cause like my, as my thinking, as my knowledge grows, I then look back at old stuff and then go, oh, I'm not sure I completely agree with that now. Or I think this could be added to. That's 

Kerri-Ann: a good point. Yeah. 

Martin: And that is a really good signal that Google loves, especially if you've got blogs that are doing blog posts that are doing really well.

Yeah. Is there anything you can kind of add to it? Like Yeah, to make it even better. Good. Okay. And keep it, keep, I'll do that at the top of the list. Top of the ranking. 

Kerri-Ann: Yes. Yes. And I heard too, even like, um, obviously your blogs are on your [00:45:00]website, but even like tweaking your website every week or that just helps it as well.

'cause Google just loves you interacting as 

Martin: long as the long as they see you like being in. Yeah, like that they can see that, oh, this is a current business. They, you know, somebody's actually updating, doing stuff with it. Yes. And it's, it's running, you know, it's not just, it's kind of sitting there. Yeah.

Yeah. Hoping to sort of, you know, make money from people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, awesome. 

[00:45:26] Wrap Up And Thanks

Martin: Thank you for coming in. 

Kerri-Ann: Yeah, thanks for that, Martin. Thanks for having me. And 

Martin: we'll ha, we'll catch up again in the next couple of weeks, I think 

Kerri-Ann: next week. Is it? Yeah. Chatter box. I gotta, 

Martin: I've gotta sort out all the, uh, all the food and, 

Kerri-Ann: okay.

Isn't week after. I don't know this time of year, I don't even know what one day or dates are, 

Martin: but by the time this goes out, we, uh, we'll, it'll probably have been done. So It is, yes. We'll say now, like just how amazing the Christmas party was say now. 

Kerri-Ann: So good. It was amazing. 

Martin: And the drinks, 

Kerri-Ann: well, they [00:46:00] my lemonade because I don't drink alcohol, so my lemonade was amazing.

Yeah, 

Martin: absolutely.

Thank you for coming. Thanks.